Do Some People Seem Impossible to Reach?


Below are two comments by Tallulah, posted recently on the article, A Manual For Citizen Warriors. Although they're a great sales pitch for our book (Getting Through) I post them here for the intelligent and useful commentary about something crucial in the counterjihad movement — how well we are able to reach those people who still hold out hope that Islam is a religion of peace (which means people who should be our allies who are inadvertently helping Islam's advance).

Here is the first comment by Tallulah:

I finished the book a couple of days ago, and like others here will read it more than once. It's so thoughtful, insightful, and psychologically intelligent.

I've been unhappy with the way so many people approach skeptics and lefties in comment sections when it comes to Islam. Getting through to people is so crucial to the future of our liberty, lives, happiness, and sanity, and I see too many people keep throwing away opportunities to plant growable seeds *because they indulge themselves in emotional venting*.

I also object to the way people assume that it's hopeless to get through to certain people, instead of assuming that perhaps if they patiently plant a seed, even in politically correct soil, that it may grow later if planted in a thoughtful way. Sometimes I get the impression that a given counter jihadist is just so angry that venting has become more important than winning the war.

While I'm sure these people are serious about the threats we face, they don't seem to have thought about how the opposition thinks and how to get around the barrier. And getting around it is the only way. Any attempt to bash through it will only make the target harden his defenses.

That's why I was so thrilled with this gem of a book. I'm recommending it at Jihad Watch and every appropriate place.

If I think of any good suggestions to include in the next edition, I'll let you know. But at the moment I'm just so happy with it as it is! :)

Thank you, Citizen Warrior, for all your hard work for the counter jihad, and for the wisdom of your approach.

A few days later, Tallulah added this comment:

I've thought of a suggestion for the next edition! Actually, I don't remember whether the present edition touched on this or not. I think perhaps it did. But here's an approach I've been using that seems to open some people right up to what I have to say.

A while back I realized that a great way to understand how Muslims relate to their religion  to see the varied ways that real, actual Muslims see Islam  would be to read lots and lots of testimonies and watch videos by *former* Muslims. I figured that former Muslims would be more likely to tell things as they really see them without fudging anything. So I started on that project and it's been a very productive project for me.

One benefit has been that by telling some of the personal stories I've read and listened to I really personalize the issues *and* Muslims for people  because among the former Muslims are people who run the gamut from former lax Muslims to people who for a time even supported the Islamic State. Using real-life examples of former Muslims' experiences, what they used to believe, what they believe now, and what they have to go through before and after coming out of the apostate closet is quite gripping. A person who can tell these stories and shows sympathy for these people cannot be a bigot, because you have to see that the same ex-Muslim that you're supporting with sympathy now was once a Muslim whose *ideology* you're presently warning against. But it's the same human being.

It's a human being who has gone through a long process of experience and thought down a long and difficult road that many other Muslims are travelling every day. (And other Muslims are not.)

The best way to gain understanding of any subject is to explain principles/ideology with real-life examples. Former Muslims make those examples profoundly personal and real. Gather stories to tell. Turn people on to investigating Muslim apostates for themselves. If you can't convince someone to read the Koran, one of these apostates just might be able to do it for you.

Maybe start them off with this guy:

Another suggestion for the next edition: You might want to think about an index in the back of the book. I could not remember whether it covered approaching people with apostate stories or not. I know I thought about the topic while I was reading, but I often stop while reading a book to follow a train of thought of my own, so I wasn't sure if I'd read it or just thought about it while reading. So I went back to the book to see, before I posted my suggestion, but there was no index to help me out. Might be helpful to others for quick reference, as well.


Walter Sieruk 12:36 PM  

To a small part of the above article which informs the reader about "those who still hope that Islam is a religion of peace" Hopeful-Yes, realistic-No. For as we all know, the whole foundation of and for Islam is based on the Koran. The Koran contains the doctrine of violence and killing for the advancement of Islam. As found the Koran in,for example, 4:89. 5:33. 9:5,111,123. 47:4. Furthermore, the word "Islam' does not ,as some claim, mean "peace." The word Islam' means actually means submission" of surrender." . So it’s a good idea not to take at face value the claim that the word Islam means “peace.” For example, the ENCARTA WORLD ENGLISH DICTIONARY copyright 1999 defines Islam as “submission” based on the word “aslama” meaning “he surrendered.” Given the definition it’s an odd phenomenon that after about fourteen hundred years starting on September 12, 2001 the meaning changed from “submission” to “peace.” It’s very well known that if the police are questioning someone and he changes his story something is wrong. Nevertheless, when it comes to Islam no one gets suspicious of the change. The jihadists brag that they will win the war against the West by using the Western ignorance and naive gullible mindset on the subject of Islam against us. It seems that they do have some basis in that claim since so many Westerners are beguiled by the Muslim disinformation campaign.

Zackery Martel 1:10 AM  

Someone emailed this:

I find this guy much more persuasive:

Anonymous 8:47 PM  

"I've been unhappy with the way so many people approach skeptics and lefties in comment sections when it comes to Islam. Getting through to people is so crucial to the future of our liberty, lives, happiness, and sanity, and I see too many people keep throwing away opportunities to plant growable seeds *because they indulge themselves in emotional venting*."

Am I one of these people? I don't know. I go to places like Alternet and ThinkProgress, where Islam has the status of a protected race. I make factual points about Islamic slavery and misogyny, which should connect with the social-justice reader audience, but sometimes I still just make people mad. Of course, the angry, passionate people are the ones most likely to shoot back a bitter reply. I am seeing a very encouraging trend in Leftist forums that show a faction of people are growing more critical of Islam.

The thing about these reader sections is: we really don't know what is going on there. I know that there are activists on all sides who devote themselves to propogating their point of view. Some of them come from organizations which may be working together to post talking points. Some may very well be paid. Some, like me, are isolated, untrained amateur activists who are devoting time outside work hours to a cause.

For every commenter, there are flocks of people who only upvote comments. For every person who comments or upvotes, there are dozens of people who just read comment sections.

I really feel that we all have to participate, even if we are not doing things exactly right.

On the other hand, it would also be good to start really looking for research about influencing comment sections. How long is a good comment? What style appeals to people? What are the most persuasive points we can make to the neutral crowd? What talking points appeal to the progressive Left?

Zackery Martel 12:36 AM  

Those are great questions. I think a good place to start is reading the book, "The Righteous Mind" by Jonathan Haidt. You will understand liberals and conservatives in a way you never have before. In a way that will make it easier to reach them.

Anonymous 10:19 AM  

Okay, thanks for the suggestion, Zackery Martel. I will get that book for this summer's reading.

Anonymous 5:51 PM  

this ex muslim makes video?
how come?
usually ex muslim are death
or they will be bombarded with death threat because the country is not syariah

if i had a chance to leave islam, instead of wasting time makes this video i will move to a remote city. change my name, change my hair color and style, change my skin colour to tan using tanning spray, so no one would remember me. i would lie to people that i was an abandoned child that raised in the orphan house.

seriuosly, this is so damn scary that you need to be "jason bourne who hide" if you want to leave islam.

how come this people come up as video maker?


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