Comments on Citizen Warrior: Push Them To Read The Quran

Dear Anonymous, Argumentum Tu-Quque is a diversi...

2012-01-16T17:15:10.869-08:00

Dear Anonymous,

Argumentum Tu-Quque is a diversion, not a defense. Nothing in the history of Judaism or Christianity matches the barbaric savagery of Islam which has been continuous since 623.

Muslims engaged in genocidal conquest through terrorism do so in obedience to Allah; emulating Moe. Christians thus engaged did so in contravention of the teaching & example of Jesus Christ.

Open the "Noble Qur'an" to
Surah At-Taubah Ayat 111 & 120, which define believers and tells how they earn extra chits for Allah's Celestial Bordello.

Any intelligent & moral person who comprehends those two verses will curse and condemn Islam.

Anonymous: Please read Why I Am Worried About Islam But Not Christianity.

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord you...

2012-01-14T12:22:20.071-08:00

However, in the cities
of the nations the Lord your God is giving
you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything
that breathes. Completely destroy
them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites,
Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord
your God has commanded you.1
(Deuteronomy 20:10-17)

Here's the Koran's last word on non-Muslim...

2011-02-11T22:53:13.742-08:00

Here's the Koran's last word on non-Muslims:

http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/09/qurans-last-word-on-non-muslims.html

quran: 2:191 4:89 9:5 "slay the...

2011-02-11T22:38:54.474-08:00

quran: 2:191
4:89
9:5
"slay the infidels wherever you find them"

a lovely little dictum, isn't it?
ibn warraq states that 9:5 cancels 124 verses of tolerance and peace.
the latter medina quran (which is violent) completely abrogates the former meccan (more peaceful) one.

If I recall my history correctly, Thomas Jefferson...

2010-02-08T18:03:45.547-08:00

If I recall my history correctly, Thomas Jefferson read the Koran and sent the Marines into Tripoli. (Democrats were much more "practical" in those days.)

The closest match is the Noble Qur'an translat...

2010-01-11T19:26:16.987-08:00

The closest match is the Noble Qur'an translated by Hilali & Khan. They used three tafsirs to provise bracketed comments and added parenthetical cmnts. to modernize it. You can read it at the King Fahd Complex for Publishing the Holy Qur'an or download it (without footnotes) from http://www.crusadersarmory.co.cc/

There is a 30 mb pdf with the footnotes, the link to download it is in the Resource post at Go Burn With Muhammad.

Translating that drek is not a task for the amateur. It requires an expert knowledge of both Classical Arabic and English.

Samuel, An Abridged Koran is just such a book. Ver...

2010-01-11T13:01:28.886-08:00

Samuel, An Abridged Koran is just such a book. Very readable. And it's even short (and yet is the entire Koran).

What is required is an enterprise to faithfully tr...

2010-01-11T08:08:13.150-08:00

What is required is an enterprise to faithfully translate the Qur'an into contemporary and suitable respectful English to better reflect the colloquial idiom and impact of the original.

The impact of reading a Qur'an so readily accessible would persuade most into abandoning misconceptions that they have been morally terrorized into believing about Islam; in particular, that it is a 'religion of peace' - or to be more exact, 'peace without war'.

Anonymous, I believe that Bill Warner has a copyri...

2009-12-28T03:53:37.740-08:00

Anonymous, I believe that Bill Warner has a copyright on the Simple Qur'an. You would need to purchase the rights, then arrange printing and distribution. That would require large sums of money.

There are publishing houses that sell bulk quantities for distribution. There is at least one Muslim organization distributing them in America.

CAIR had a distribution program.

In any case, it is highly unlikely that anyone would read it. You need to stir up interest first.

In the Flyers to Print section of Crusader's Armory, you will find about 20 tri-fold brochures you can print and distribute at will. They contain Qur'an and hadith quotes which would serve to stimulate curiosity.

It seems to me that we need to start a GIDEON SOC...

2009-12-27T20:44:15.436-08:00

It seems to me that we need to start a GIDEON SOCIETY to print and pass out copies of A Simple Koran for free or at a very reduced price like various Bible Societies do. This is important enough for this country that the books need to be sold not for profit. I have the idea, does some one have the brains to pull this off???
Jim Newcomb

You make a very good point, Henrik. The Qur'an...

2009-06-14T17:31:06.487-07:00

You make a very good point, Henrik. The Qur'an cannot really be understood without the Hadith, unless you read a version of the Qur'an that includes the relevant information from the Hadith, such as A Simple Koran.

And Islam has a only a few central holy books. ...

2009-06-14T14:01:00.446-07:00
And Islam has a only a few central holy books. The most central is the Qur'an.

I, ehm, disagree...

I think the most important books are the hadith. Because it explains the '5 pillars' (the Quran doesn't), because it lays out the example that Muslims are supposed to follow (Muhammad), and because it relates what Muhammad actually did in his life, providing indispensable context for the Quran. Which to a great extent is just a collections of demands on the Muslims (like "Fear, pray, pay & fight").

Of the Hadith collections, the most important to understand the life of Muhammad are Ibn Ishaq and Al-Tabari (volumes 6 through 9), because they relate the life story of Muhammad without many dubious hagiographic add-ons. Uncut - not least the Tabari version.

Understanding these leads to understanding of many things, like why Yasser Arafat used the example of Muhammad to justify not keeping his parts of the Oslo Accords.

Hi all If you haven't got a lot of time then read ...

2009-05-08T06:21:00.000-07:00
Hi all
If you haven't got a lot of time then read "all islam in 2 pages" and you 'll know all that is necessary about islam
http://www.coranix.org/action/about_islam.pdf

> Due to its length, turgidity & redundanc...

2009-05-03T14:42:00.000-07:00
> Due to its length, turgidity & redundancy, most people won't plow through the Qur'an. The last statistic about this indicated that only 17% of male Muslims have read it in their own language. Only 13% of Muslimas have read it. I tried and failed twice before I finally plowed through it.
>
> As I see it, people need to encounter a condensed version, just the egregious verses, with the chaff removed. It must be presented with the hadith and Shari'ah so that the pattern can be perceived. This is why I created:
>
> * Know Thine Enemy[I attempted to pass a link to the Myth vs Fact series. I can't because the url got corrupted and I accidentally deleted the folder.
> * What You Need To Know About Islam> * What's Wrong With Islam/Muslims?> * ROPMA>
> What's Wrong With Islam publishes the most essential quotes in one place, linked to source. It also states and refutes the primary objections. ROPMA is a list of Tafsir titles linked to source. The titles alone should open all but the most bigoted and filtered eyes.
>
> I furnish the links so that readers can see the texts for themselves, verify them and explore them in depth. Very few follow through. For some unknown reason, someone in Pakistan, Indonesia, and other areas in Asia & Arabia has been searching for variations of Islam Exposed. Some of the searches are for web sites that no longer exist. They visit Islam Exposed.blogspot.com, but most of the visits are short, in & out in a hurry. Sometimes there are a dozen or more of these searches per day.
>
> Two of my blogs have resources posts or pages listing links to libraries and downloads. One of them seems to average about 5 hits per day. People from all over the world are seeking the Qur'an, Tafsir & Hadith. Some are even downloading Reliance of the Traveller from my site. Occasionally one of my Powerpoint presentations gets downloaded. I hope they are being spread by email.

Note: This was originally transmitted to CW by email. He requested that I post it in the comments.

Since the comment editor is not a Richedit, the html won't pass directly, so I used my ALinkMaker utility to fix up the links.

The Hilali & Khan translation includes paraphrases from tafsir to explain many verses. Fluent Arabic speakers tell me that it is 95% accurate with the following exceptions: "fight" should be kill and "Marry" should be F!!!.

Older translations may be more litteral, esp. Rodwell's; see his http://qb.gomen.org/QuranBrowser/cgi/bin/retrieve.cgi?version=rodwell&layout=auto&searchstring=009:29.

About those "grapes": 38:52. And beside them will be chaste females (virgins) restraining their glances only for their husbands, (and) of equal ages. How many grapes have given you glances? Would you eat one as old as you are? Do grapes get married and have intercourse?

See Also 56:33-37How many grapes have you seen having mammary glands?? 78:33. And young full-breasted (mature) maidens of equal age; They may have PHD after their names, but the meaning is Piled Higher and Deeper, nothing more. There is no guarantee of accuracy nor veracity; accept no claims, always check the context!!!

Ibn Kathir's Tafsir Who knows better: a scholar who spent his entire adult life immersed in the original texts in the original language, or a modern day polemicist?

You go to Hell if you don't go to Jihad, you go to Paradise if you are killed in battle. There you get rivers of wine, low hanging fruit always in season, all kinds of meat and you never get hung over or obese. What's the damn difference if those houris are grapes, virgins who continually grow new hymens, or baboons? Try looking at the big picture as well as the minutia.

If you know where to look in the hadith, you'll find that their butts are a mile wide, they don't sweat, urinate, menstruate or suffer headaches.

But the important fact to remember is this: Muslims are promised eternity in lush gardens for participating in genocide.

Keep your eyes on the prize!

Excellent and useful comments, all of you. For mor...

2009-05-03T13:11:00.000-07:00
Excellent and useful comments, all of you. For more on abrogation, readers can go here.

Great post, many thanks for this helpful suggestio...

2009-05-03T12:14:00.000-07:00
Great post, many thanks for this helpful suggestion. I have a copy of the Qur'an and am going to follow your advice.

Thanks also to those who have pointed out that the later verses cancel out the earlier ones; in other words, the violent material is taken seriously by Muslims while the few 'peaceful' parts are invalid.

charlestonact: the 'Qur'an Project' sounds great, thanks for that tip :)

I would couple this with suggesting some of the av...

2009-05-03T09:07:00.000-07:00
I would couple this with suggesting some of the available on-line video demonstrating these verses and how for many Muslims the message of the quran is as alive and valid it was 1,000 years ago and is used to justify the culture, objectives and aggression seen today.

If they read the Qur'an, you need no longer tel...

2009-05-03T08:49:00.000-07:00
If they read the Qur'an, you need no longer tell them anything else about Islam.Absolutely!

Just these past few weeks, I had a student (private, post-grad) working on her choice of a research topic. She chose "Is Islam Inheretnly Violent?" Of the type who researches original sources, she waded through the Koran when she first began researching.

I didn't have to explain my own position on Islam! She understood the reality of the threat of Islam just by reading the Koran!

An excellent point. One of the most persistent me...

2009-05-03T05:55:00.000-07:00
An excellent point. One of the most persistent memes obstructing a real understanding of the problem is the belief that violent and aggressive Islam is just a small-scale aberration, while "mainstream" Islam is a "religion of peace". Reading the Qur'ân leaves little scope for sustaining this delusion.

There are a couple of points I would add when making this suggestion to someone:

First, be sure they understand the concept of "abrogation" of earlier verses by later ones, which is how Islam deals with the problem of contradictions in the text. The Qur'ân does contain some humane passages, but they are mostly in earlier verses and are superseded by the later material calling for war against unbelievers. Also, the chapters in the official text of the Qur'ân are ordered mostly by length (longest first), not by when they were "revealed", so one can't tell which verses are earlier vs. later just by looking at the order they appear in in the text. The later (more authoritative) and more violent verses often come before the earlier and less authoritative ones, just because they're longer.

One also need to be sure the person gets an accurate translation. Some English versions are a bit sanitized to make the pronouncements less shocking to Western sensibilities. I have a version with the Arabic and English text side by side (I can read Arabic, though very laboriously), and it is interesting to see the subtle shading of the translation here and there.

Do any of you know of further studies on the origi...

2009-05-03T01:26:00.000-07:00
Do any of you know of further studies on the original language of the Koran since the Charles Luxemborg one in 2000? His is in German.
There is a book review of it in English which reveals simply stunning differences in the original and the version promoted by 'Uthman'. For instance, scroll down to paragraph 30 in the review, where the comparison of the supposed '72 virgins' in Paradise, turn out to be "white (grapes), (like) jewels (of crystal).”

This might be simply stunning to those martyred jihadis who are expecting virgins but get only white grapes in Paradise!

Love it! I started something called The Koran Pro...

2009-05-02T13:00:00.000-07:00
Love it! I started something called The Koran Project a few months ago and it goes like this - buy 2 Korans - keep one to read for yourself and give the other to a friend - with the caveat that they have to buy another Koran to give to one of their friends - and so on.

The Koran says it all! Those on the left defending Islam have not read the Koran. Challenge them to back up what they're defending by becoming knowledgeable about it.

Thanks for the Koran recommendations - I'll definitely utilize those. All the best!